Makes a lot of sense..Nicely writn.. Bt is what kashmiris want is what they truely want or wouldnt it be an act of anger or just manipulation, if it succumbs to that stage?

no seperate constitution, it’s under article 370 which gives it special autonomy in some sectors. The kashmir debate is very long and involves a lot of egos. It has for long been a playground for both countries, and i guess it is time for a plebiscite. There are more things tht i mentioned, but my last post didnt get thru so fuk it. one main thing tho is the strategic position of kashmire. Without kashmir, jammu is unguarded, It is an easy target being a low lying area and prone to mortar fire from the mountains, might be a case like sarajevo in 92-94. Interesting work tho, congrats! will discuss in detail sumtime.

It is sad that media and people have generalised the issue to be an issue for the Kashmiris alone. The fact of the matter is, the state is much larger area than just the Valley. The areas of Ladakh and Jammu are as much a part of the State and a solution should be more inclusive than breaking up the state on the Indian side. The resoultion is not possible as Pakistan would never retreat beyond the pre-1948 lines and India doesn’t have to

It is the most inappropriate time for a plebiscite. Demonising the Army has gone a little too far. We by granting them any free hand are playing into the Hurriyat’s lap. They are a hindrance to the process than anything else. It was the same Army which provided cover to the traders during the seizure of the Highway, their efforts went unrecognised as we only like to hear loud voices.

I do not think Kashmir should be foolish to close Indian doors to them. If they seriously think they can survive with the srinagar-muzzafarabad trade link, they are most certainly mistaken. Simple economics would tell you that closing a market of a billion to a failing economy is not a good choice.

If one feels that India has made their lives miserable, they should be allowed to go to the free side of Kashmir. It is dangerous in a volatile enviornment as that to suggest freedom. I think if an Indian does so, openly he/she should be tried for sedition.

iTS PEOPLES MOVEMENT AND DONT HIDE FACES LIKE CAMELS DO

well lots be said are written about kashmir. nearly 160 times conferances have been held so what?….if india claims kashmir its “atoot ang” then why are we talking to pakistan.well the answer is simple and short its a party to this conflict.its quite reasonable when we see lakhs comming on streets of kashmir,draging the sepratists from their houses uderhouse arrest just to say some words.The truth is always bitter lets hope that the indian side realise that “kashmir need azadi from india,and india needs azadi from kashmir”remarkable words from an undaunted lady Arundaty-Roy.

In my opinion if people feel Pakistan is free…Kashmiris are welcome to leave India, and I am sure Pakistani government will be glad to accommodate them. Kashmiris want to march to LOC not realising that it is a de-facto border between countries, if get shot,, it’s India’s fault. Utter nonsense!

As far as Arundhati Roy, she should be tried for sedition.

The war of words can go on…..emotions speak louder while truth remains hidden. HISTORY OF INDIA AND KASHMIR SHOULD BE READ BEFORE COMMENTING ABOUT KASHMIR AND WHO HOLDS IT AND WHY? AS FAR AS WRITERS COLOMNISTS ARE CONSIDERED, BY CURSING THEM ONE ONLY SHOWS HOW FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION IS HELD HIGH.TRAITORS AND REBELLS HAVE DIFFRENT MEANING…..ITS A MATTER OF CHOICE TO KNOW OR BE IGNORENT

Why do your lines blur over the question of the whole state. The self centred ideas of a quarter of Kashmiris…Were Jammu and Ladakh never a part of the whole issue. Your ideas are based on muslim majority of the region and nothing else. The case of identity is a figment of imagination. You are allowed a government voted by you..now you can shun the ones you don’t like.

Somehow some people have taken on the fact that they alone know the facts.

There is a thin line between sedition and freedom of expression. Ms. Roy has certainly crossed it..

The above commentator is been carried away by his, patriotic and emotional manifestation. The question here is not about keeping the patriotic zeal high but of lakhs of human miseries that have, taken place. We are not here to debate on the issue but get down to the facts. Coming back to the above persons comment, I really find him as an educated illiterate, forget about the history of Kashmir, sir do you know that Jammu and Kashmir is a Muslim dominated states. Having a majority of Muslims, special mention to those lakhs of Jammu Muslims who were brutally murdered, otherwise the situation would have been different and I am not quoting it of my own its on record where ever you may like to check in and even you have mentioned it but its just history now, the present fact I would love to tell u is as
a) Jammu is Hindu dominated territory, it end from where it starts i.e. its not even comparable to what Srinagar of Kashmir is. I am talking in terms of land capacity.
b) More over the report submitted to sacher commission by the government .of Jammu and Kashmir tell it all. I do not need to comment on this. The writings on the wall are clear all u need is better way at looking at the things. Rather harboring bitterness.
c) Well for putting facts straight ladakh is no where in the whole Kashmir. It’s not a separate land. they owe alliance to the princely state of Jammu and Kashmir rather than India it self and yes WE ARE TALKING JAMMU AND KASHMIR, as a state that is under article 370 of U.N that makes it different from rest of India and has its own constitution a flag and no outsider can settle in Jammu and Kashmir and the bconstitution of india does never deny the fact and What kashmiries are right now demanding is implementation of U.N article 370 and to add more that was even promised by jawahar lal Nehru.
I do agree with you that its just the idea of Muslim majority and nothing more but it’s the cruel part of a democratic setup where ever it is, but democracy works like that……….(its nothing like heads I win and tails you loose)some loose and some win, no one way road.
I real wonder how you have been carried away by the media propaganda…..the fact is, in Jammu and Kashmir no election was free and fair even advani makes a special mention to it in his book. It was every time at the behest of center government. ALL RIGGED, your this idea gets knocked down too. What these elections meant and for whom they meant is for you to decide.
As far as facts are considered……they are of two types
1) The one that you and you believe and take it as truth
2) The other fact is about ground reality based on true assessments and much closer to truth. It’s Very hard to digest but truth remains truth.
You don’t leave any room to let me know that you know facts; I did suggest you to go through history of Kashmir conflict. And people like you and me should be thankful to blog sites and like the platform of views paper, otherwise who would have known you and by the way Arundhati Roy doesn’t need a platform like this, she has already proved her metal internationally AND IS WORLD ACLAIMED.but still if still she is rebellious then let me add more people to it
Virsangvi of Hindustan times,swaminathan A Aiyar coloumnist times of india and the list continues.
It’s real hard to digest facts but here are some
1)59% of Indians believe Kashmir should be librated, CNN-IBN face the nation
Where people were asked by the host sagarika gosh to answer whether its time Kashmir’s azadi. YES, SAY 59%……They all might be headless as you may notice it.
2 51% of Indians have no problem with independent Kashmir on the both sides of L.o.c ,only 35% thought its was unacceptable. a similar poll was done of Pakistan soil…….worldpublicopinion.org was doing under the part of understanding Kashmir conflict.
Its so annoying that people happen to be discussing drawing room politics at comfort zones but they know nothing about what fact and fiction means…..at least credit for those activists/journalists etc who bring facts. They are not stooges but work day and night to bring facts and its high time to know facts first and then talk, talk and talk. REST EVEN still doubts remain then charity begins at home. Start doing one.

DO CHECK MY PIECE “KASHMIR GEARS UP TO VETO AZADI”…..HOPE IT MIGHT HELP.

Why is Abhik Sen getting his panties in a knot…

Just to clear the air..

The facts are:

1. Unlike Hyderabad, the people never decided which state they wanted to join. Kashmir was handed over to India in a desperate bid by Hari Singh (the supposed ruler whose ancestors were handed the kingdom by the the british as reward for support against the sikhs) in 1948 when Pakistani raiders started attacking from the West. It retained certain autonomy though under the article 370.

2. Elections have nearly always been rigged in J&K, especiall in 1987 when MUF should have won. THey were hugely popular.

3. Sheikh Abdullah was put to jail by Nehru, who was a popular leader, for quite a while. That’s not how you win people over.

4. Ladakh and specially the Aksai Chin Area is laregely disputed territoty, which we think is part of India because our maps have always told us so. In reality, Nehru fucked up there during the Border Commission, cuz he wanted to strike a compromise deal with China (refer to deal against ManMohan Line in Arunachal Pradesh).

5. You use the word sedition very fleetingly…Well, The Sedition Act, embodied under Indian Penal Code Section 124A, reads as follows:

Whoever by words, either spoken or written, or by signs, or by visible representation, or otherwise, brings or attempts to bring into hatred or contempt, or excites or attempts to excite disaffection towards, the Government established by law in India, shall be punished with imprisonment for life, to which fine may be added, or with imprisonment which may extend to three years, to which fine may be added

Keeping that in mind, why would you say Arundhati Roy should be tried for sedition. Don’t you think think fighting for the ‘Right to iife’, ‘Right aganist exploitation’ (both fundamental rights) for a group people who havnt been adequately represented by our ‘govt.’, is a very good thing to do. Be it the Narmada Bachao Andolan or this, she is doing something. Btw, Roy had said in Srinagar that the “people of Kashmir have made themselves abundantly clear that they want complete freedom”. I can’t find no seditious statement in echoing the sentiments of a people ignored by the fruits of the growing Indian economy, and who have a totally useless section of a constitution regulating them, telling them that ” you aren’t a part of us”.

Think about it. Most of us in our cushy urban dwellings cannot fathom the problem. Yes, too much is at stake for India too loose Kashmir, but it’s better than loosing lives in a seperatist or a civil war. The people were never given a choice, even when the nation was formed, and they’ve suffered for 60 odd years now from fighting. Substantiate your argument. Why do u think India deserves Kashmir? We’ve never made them feel that they were a part of us as a group of people. If we want Kashmir, we have to give them a reason to choose us, or nobody can force people into submission.

Ykno, there should be a criminal law for idiots. They’re of no use to society.

Well ,it seems “big guns” are here and I do certainly appreciate that fact are put first rather than having ones own say…………ignorance leads to disaster and every scheme is available to make education a priority. Some remain deprived and that’s the unfortunate part. Hope that “from darkness they come to light”. I hope neither me nor the other readers are left over by the above commentator vision.

ok…guys….sorry to divert u…but lets get down to some logistical n practical issues……
lets say we give the kashmiri people the freedom to choose…firstly who administers the election…who pays the cost for it(India which stands a chance of losing Kashmir after the vote)…who campaigns from the side of pakistan…afterall we want it to be fair..nd yes how to decide wots to be done if 30% decide to stay with India, 30% with Pakistan n 40% an Independent Kashmir..i mean do we work by the principle of simple majority..but ok these r small issues…can be sortednothing really if u take in2 account the hundreds of lives lost every year
option 1.stay with India….if they choose this, then most problems dissappear…atleast Indias claim to Kashmir get some legitimacy from the people themselves
option 2.Be a part of Pakistan….now who bears the cost of integrating Kashmir in2 Pakistan…n believe me it will cost millions…Pakistan probably wont be able to afford it….its economy is in tatters…n do u really expect India 2 fund a division of itself….n yes wot bout the significant proportion who want to stay with India but dont want to part with their land
Option 3.Independence…that means a seperate nation right….a seperate Parliament, election commission, judiciary, defence, transportation ministry, foreign services, civil services,stock exchange,economy…the list is too long to complete….it will probably cost millions as well….moreover it will take a long time….who funds Kashmir then….the generous India…ok suppose thats done
who is to ensure Kashmir does not end up as another East Timor…that is a failed state….who is to blame if that happens…India i guess…for giving in to its demands

Lady, in case a plebiscite is held, it will be under the U.N. So it solves your earlier problem of holding the election and cost, etc. You might argue about the authenticity of the U.N. and ponder over it, maybe say that the U.S. is just a NATO, but then that’s the UN Security Council legislation, and currently that’s the most able body which can hold a free and fair election.

As to the three options, we all know those options since way back, and their respective feasability. But history has proven that you cannot hold a people to ransom.

There are also certain rules relating to the electorate and voting composition when such elections are held. In case of a major tie, there’s status quo also.

PS- Sorry for rudeness in the last reply … was very drunk

Why is Abhik Sen getting his panties in a knot…

——-

Seems your panties have been unknotted all too often

But i would like to be less abusive towards you. I don’t know the reasons for the heavy resentments towards me!

When an indian national disregards any form of violence which the terrorists have started in Kashmir and blame the Indian Army for virtually everything under the sun, it is stupid..But we want activism which is going to do no good.

You say Nehru fucked up..Let’s be fair..China wanted too much..He was idealistic and got screwed. China would have asked for the whole of Ladakh as any compromise. left to China, they would assert India is a region of China. They had started making inroads into the area long back, to which India protested, leading to the war and India’s defeat.

Roy has claimed freedom for a part of the nation! i think it is not her prerogative, hence seditious. Is she the voice of India? besides, are you saying the Army is the devil to do all the wrong things? All the lives they have lost there are for nothing?

One fact, which is overplayed by the Kashmiri populace, maximum force of Indian Army is on the borders and not in the streets of Kashmir as claimed by the sloganeers. Also, why then does the army have to do the dirty work for them. Why did they have to give them cover during the blockade? If they consider the army to be evil, then they should have made sure the army is not called for protection.

The protests in kashmir are heavily concentrated in the Urban areas, which again shows that the fight is just of the urban Kashmiris. In Kashmir if a political party is pro-India it is not to be regarded, seems to be your line too.

What fundamental right have they been denied? They have right to property everywhere in India. They have right to speech unless deemed harmful to national intrest. They have the right to employment anywhere in India. If they have been put under the Army’s eye it is totally because their violent movement, which since they cannot win they have started a pseudo non-violent movement. This movement involves, intimidating the security forces with stones and other things, then provoking a reaction in a delicate state.

I do believe that a blanket curfew is unwarranted, and protest should be allowed. This is one right which is not to be taken away. But, Kashmiris too must see the present situation. It is delicate on all sides. pakistan is virtually under Taliban and any let up from us can escalate problems in the Valley.

Also this protesting has hurt them more than India, they are losing tourists.

Besides, everyone is happy with pakistan’s status on POK, which they have de-facto made their integral territory, by systemically denying the political rights to pro-indepedence politicians. They sign a statement stating their allegiance to Pakistan before contesting for elections.

As far as Hyderabad, we did not hold any plebiscite there, we annexed it. Which is the section that states that Kashmiris are not a part of us? They wanted a special status, which Nehru gave them in Article 370!

Nehru was to conduct the plebiscite, but pakistan never agreed to the pre-conditions and today we are at a disadvantage due to the engineered anti-India sentiment.

Also. i am for freedom. I said if they can get us to free them, by all means keep having strikes, keep valley locked up for all your lives. Close a market like India to trade with Azad Kashmir, which doesn want too much apples and other similar produces. I say open all border trade. let them snap trade with the Mainland india in totality. I have no problem with that!

PS: I hope you can keep the discussion civil. You do not have to start with insinuations.

Yes one thing that i certainly agree with is that no election has been fair enough. We need to start a better mechanism, probably grant greater autonomy and open access to Azad kashmir. We can have some form of power sharing agreement. I think peace is of paramount. Elections should be held completely under premises of people of J&K and union of India should have no role. This will ensure some neutrality.

I also truly believe if there was to be a realistic talk about freedom. One must let the area be calm. We certainly cannot have a plebiscite in a violent atmosphere like today. The world is not as critical of India today, so the world powers are not going to be at ease to give support.

well i am trying to figure it out why this person rather than getting out of such knots is intrested in plunging him self more into it.I am analyzing his first comment to the last and all i can understand about the said person is,when he looses one front of the debate he starts to open another fronts,digressing from actual facts,i am sorry to say but then he even contradicts his own statement making me remember of “The Jumping Jack” never having a ground to stand and why i am i saying so,i leave it for rest of the commentators including the author of this piece to decide.
Its wonderful that he acknowledge article 370 but then he is saying no to the separate constitution of jammu &kashmir,don’t have a clue which history book he is consulting.i find it hard to understand which autonomy as he refer ed is he talking about while the most strategic and important back bone remain under Indian constitution,which autonomy is he ref ring to (please do let me know what do you mean by autonomy say granted to any part of worlds chunk of land?) don’t mix Kashmir and history? might be you can help me in coming out of ignorance.If you might come up with an argument that autonomy is given within the constitutional limits of a country then kindly take time to think why there is a state within a state and why a citizen cant buy a land or setteldown in kashmir.is it that beautiful or a big dispute that eventually lead to war with Pakistan and both the two countries ending up at the U.N intervention and resolutions including article 370.by the way they still have the national flag in red with a plough in the center and a constitution with Urdu as the official language.let me even mention it is same applicable to jam mu province where still the minority community has a good flare for the language.The closest border with Pakistan happen to be a important factor as much of the F.M, state owned stations are having good amount of listeners in jam mu including Punjabi from the neighbouring country.while Kashmir doesn’t have any such media influence as its banned from government of India still its embedded in the constitutions

comment 1:-sen is wrong and doesn’t have an iota of truth to declare that the Indian army gave cover on the national highway….the fact is first neither the government of India nor the state Governor agreed that there happened to be an economic blockade …..it was after much of the uproar and special to mention of the drivers that nearly wee killed and still an investigation is on for the reason of killing of Muslim driver by Hindu mob at various places on highway…..if cover was there how were the houses of the no-maids tribe Muslims burned estimate says some700 alone were burned,now the present Governor has come out officially to declare that hoses of Muslims were burned……common its not child’s play
comment2:- you happen to be answering in response to my comment…with a rage you say if Kashmirs feel they should join Pakistan and leave indian state…..you on one side except the Nehru legacy and on the other article 370 and finally emotions takes you over which leaves me on to believe you are guided by your emotions rather than your brain.

comment3:- then you felt i am not doing justice and my lines bluer at some questions…..i did respond to your comment with utmost sincerity and based on true fact but a sh rude man can never be challenged because he doesn’t believe hes a looser
Comment4-its not stupid! its stupidity! sir, Now that you have opened another front of India Amye’s credentials and the sacrifices.i just want to say firstly when the issue itself is questionable then the armies role becomes more of suspicion otherwise you and me would not be commenting today on kashmir like that.The same MS ROY was so fascinated on seeing Kashmirs beauty that she couldn’t rise st to say that its the worlds most”beautifully prison” to elaborate she said for a bunch of 1500 militants,the stake holders are putting in 7 lack and above military personals, waisting every resource they can better utilise something on. veer sangvi didn’t leave any stone unturned he mentioned the same that we by that he meant India,is waisting its time resources,money,man power.let kashmiries be given the right to hold plebiscite.terrorism definitely should be condemned in all its forms.no religion scribes to that idea but then even then some one left an open debate when said “some ones terrorist can be some ones freedom fighter”.Chechnya,Iraq,Kashmir etc. you can keep on mixing the too. bagatsing and the rest were terrorist for British(on record) but then happened to be freedom fighters of India which India has forgot even today.
devils never need a certificate by saying that i mean (u know the job of a army personal is to kill and only kill)one bullet one enemy.they are tamed to kill and not to preach tolerance like the dalilamas of today.its not surprising to me if an innocent is brutally killed because its their job and they are just unleashed to kill who comes their way.That’s the job of a jaw an frankly,when its Battle and the constant fair of being killed then either he gets killed or kills and at such time no one cares about human rights,P.O.W rights etc all one knows is kill to save life.”TH ATS MILITARY” And no barkha dutt shot of saving the life of a kashmiri or the hip hop film industry taking part in bousting morals of indian army.GROW UP LOOK BEYOND SPOON FEEDING.what you see is not always true even the amaricans could deny how duty they went in ABU-GARAIB jail or gaunta namo bay.But then you fell good that army is cleansed from the holy water of ganges or even if its involved its some minors incidents.well let me take pride in shedding the uniform man that seems sacred to you and before that let me give you the latest what democracy is all about……… funny as it may seem to you, check out

Recently a fact finding team from various parts of india visited kashmir.The ten member team comprising of prof.Amit Bhattacharya of jadavpur unvirsity,kolkata,M.ibrahim,exective editor Madhayam karala,Rona Wilson,reserch scholar J.N.U including film makers,advocates,acadmics,journilists and rights activist condemned the harassment of its team which was arrested at srinagar aripot.the copies of bulletin of committee for the realise of political prisoners(C.R.P.P) were also seized by the security agencies.Mr Amit Bhattacharya heading the team said in a press conference and i quote”The most disturbing sight in the whole fact finding mission was the over-bearing presence of the army,paramilitary,police and S.O.G(special operation group) under the garb of fighting militancy has only increased the cruelty and brutality of the state forces perpetrated on the people” The team added it was prompted to asses ground reality in the state in view of the mounting propaganda of the Indian state and demanded the Indian state to repeal all Draconian laws like P.S.A,D.A.A,AFSPA and others.This fact finding team arrived in between 12-13 October but had to stay in lock up rather than the banks of the Dal lake and mind you this hap pend after the whole nation saw he sea of people on the streets of Kashmir.its for you to decide which law is applicable to book them,i mean the way you have been using the word seditious.god knows how many sangvis,roys and nauwlakhas will you put behind bars.If government is “FOR THE PEOPLE” BY “THE PEOPLE” THEN I STRONGLY BE LIVE THEY ARE THE STAKE HOLDERS IN DEMOCRACY.its not about those donkeys who nod their Head and say “the boss is always right”.They have brains so they feel like holding democracy accountable,while you might still be “JANTA-JANARDAN” but they have brain to hold democracy accountable that’s why they are labelled as seditious.they say being infamous till brings fame.The seditious Roy at least is now a days talk of the town while the JANTA-JANARDHAN is still following the bandwagon of famous loyalists.Hurrah DEMOCRACY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HAVE GUTS TO COME TO TERMS WITH REALITY……….
DO YOU KNOW/ WELL I AM SURE YOU DON’T GIVE A DAM NOR DO YOU WANT TO KNOW
An international organization research on Kashmir conflict has reported that 85% of valley population have confrontation with violence while 66% have witnessed torture.The research was conducted in two districts across 30 villages from the last three months and those occurring since the start of the conflict.it adds that exposure to cross-fire (85.7%),round up raids ( 82.7%),the witnessing of torture (66.9%),rape (13.3%),self experience of forcible labour (33.7%),arrests/kidnapping (16.9%),torture (12.9%) and sexual violence(11.6%).it even mentions of various ailments due to such harsh condition specially on male population.the report goes on and on.i know its just an international organization with no buyers but for the readers and you here is the web portal address http://www.7thspace.com.a similar poll was done by another international organization which had further more to add to the services done by the army.if so the claims made by you are that they are rendering services to the people,here is an another example……
a group of hundreds of mothers,half widows,wife’s,child en have a daily routine of assembling on a particular day at lalchock,Srinagar…..those innocents are called as (A.P.D.P), Association of parents of disappeared persons.An open debate was held by the correspondents of radio.B.C done by nayima mahjoor,the panel apart from A.P.D.P were former Deputy minister of Congress Mr Mangat Ram Sharma,including D.G police and others,the show went to the extent that Mr Mangat Ram Sharma couldn’t stop the flow of tears coming down his eves.the show was an ever lasting hit that U.N asked for the copies of the program to be filed and reasonable felt that worlds Human rights organization should take a serious note…..courtesy Indian army,CHK OUT THE ARCHIVES OF B.B.C URDU RADIO,LONDON
EN OUGHT INTERNATIONAL………COM MING BACK HOME,HERE IS THE MINISCULE TIP OF THAT ICEBERG AND IF I KEEP ON POURING,YOU REGRET FOR SURE,well to tell you more sir IN Jam mu & Kashmirs 16% of the news is reported while rest remains under cover that means even the so called national media shy away from so many facts.i dont know aurnaub of times now,Barka Datt of Ndtv or for that matter Rajeev sirdesi of CNNibn has some time to turn on the cameras and show the real dirt below and how many blood stains remain unwashed………courtesy Indian army.HERE is what the Indian state has to say The national Human Rights Commission has today called upon jam mu&Kashmir government to inform about……..

whether the state government has established a system to record allegations of enforced or involuntary disappearance and,if so,the nature of that system.and work till date done and results coming out.The measure that are being taken to prevent the occurrences of enforced or involuntary disappearances.the measure taken to book those found involved and to provide justice to those who have suffered.ON sep2000,the commission had taken notice of an article in THE TIMES OF INDIA of 30august2000 under the heading “desperately seeking the disappeared”……..the article states that”OVER 2000 PEOPLE”,between ages of 10 and 70,have disappeared from kashmir valley” such articles and news items were followed by THE HINDU,THE ASIAN AGE AND AGAIN IN TIMES OF INDIA,ON 31 AUGUST 2000.
DO you know that people are used by Indian army as human shields while he ding for insurgency operation which later are termed as foreign terrorists…..THE mass graves found in recent months in south Kashmir…….IF YOU STILL IN A COG MIRE TO KNOW WHO KILLED THEM OR WHO LEAD TO SUCH DISAPPEARANCE…….A RECORD OF FEW DISTRICTS IS MAINTAINED FOR EVER VIOLENCE AND BRUTAL USE OF FORCE,KILLINGS RAPES,ETC some which are committed by militants by an organization in jam mu and Kashmir called COLLATION OF CI VIAL SO CITY WHICH REMAIN CONSTANTLY IN TOUCH WITH A SIMILAR ORGANIZATION WIDELY ACCLAIMED IN AMA RICA.MAINTAINING EVER ACT OF CRIME DONE BY diff rent forces of which Indian army takes the LIONS SHARE………..to take an end note i would love to tell you that “the curfews you talking of and the non-violent moment which as you say has started and includes only Urban areas with majority of soldiers deployed on borders….let me give a final touch CHECK OUT THE HINDU,a news item says incursion by chines on pangong lake which happens to be part of Ladakh with the other half of pangong lake it self in India………why was a sudden curfew imposed for two days ahead of march to lalchock chaloo called by separatists on 6th October, with the main lalchock area completely sealed by thin steel sheets and barbed wires…….if the demonstration was so non-violent why didn’t the5 lack people went on a rampage when assembled at T.R.C ground which is a few walks away from lalchock…..was government worried or embarrassed on seeing gren flags being furled on the clock tower of lalchock………even if i assume that you stated that Indian army is on the roads then why does the visiting fact finding team feel so……….are they all nuts and you the only birbal.
ITS SO EASY TO COMMENT BUT THE DIFFERENCE IS WHEN YOU ARGUE ,ARGUE SUCH THAT YOU HAVE A BASE AND I DONE THE SAME ARGUMENTS FOLLOWED BY TRUE FACTS AND NOT LIKE THE ONES YOU HAVE MENTIONED BECAUSE YOU BELIEFE IS SIMPLE “ARGUE FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUING” AND NOTHING MORE…….USE THE INFORMATION SUPER HIGHWAY IN A PROPER WAY AND FEEL LUCKY TO HAVE INTERNET CONNECTION THAT CAN SERVE AS A TOOL TO UPDATE YOURSELF AND THE HAPPENINGS AROUND and do visit the sites mentioned including http://www. jkccs.org (jammu& kashmir coalition of civil socity)which maintains the record of every killing,torture etc and yes its till date note recognizes by govrment neither has any aflliation with human rights commision, openions can change try some!!!!!! ………..”ALL THAT GLITTERS IS NOT GOLD AND ALL THAT RUSTS IS NOT IRON”.

Abhik Sen YOU WENT TOO FAR….WHATS THIS “ROY” HAUNTING YOU…….COMMON WAKE UP!!! HAVE A CHILL PILL “BE A MAN” FIRST

I am stopping your opinion. You are free to think of a free Kashmir. I am allowed to oppose a view which i feel is not right!

do you feel that the only opinion that should matter is that of the marauding mobs?

strange when it comes to debate you turn your face….you can have your views but then when your views are basless then its “propaganda” and nothing much.i did justify my views but you couldnt comes out of the knots giving some “food for thougt to your brains”

LIES DONT HAVE LEGS…..make sure that you have a stand when you debate.rest your incredible lies met the same fate as the earlier ones

What are the incredible lies?

That there was a violent movement in the valley started by JKLF! That you often consider Hizbul Mujahideen to be innocent!
What is the debate that you have won? When i quoted urban marches, you quoted Pagongso lake in Ladakh!

Do you want me to say you won? If so tell me. If you do want to discuss, lets play one fact at a time rather than the whole history!

Your ’so called facts’ are based on versions by the Huriyat!

I have clearly stated my view, that they are mistakn tht the initial view was against the Indian nation. You never contered the fact that Pakistan never really agreed to a plebiscite and instead tried to wage an unsuccessful war.

I am not the best person to judge you, you have mastered the art better. So i wouldn’t comment on your thinking.

I’ll clear mine. i believe that India has a stake in the state and should not give it away! This is because, the opinion has been engineered by your friends in ISI and their splinter cells in the valley. Pakistan is athreat in terms of Talibanisation and such elements coming into Kasmir in a Islamic state.
Besides I have said time and again, that if you can, attain freedom. Try another terrorist movement. Ask for more help from Pakistan, who would be glad to do so. I am just against India giving it up. I have also stated that I support Kashmiris too take up residence in the freer Azad kashmir as Pakistan seemingly gives you all the freedom needed!
I might be a fool, let me be so…I like my new found state of mind.

Your popular agitation is just limited to the sunni dominion and is definitely not reflected in other parts of the state. You are again allowed to disagree, as you are way more knowledgeable and do not do any propoganda!

bad habits die hard” whats was that you spoke of the army”??????????

What did i say of the army?
That they had to provide cover when the trucks were passing Jammu. I stand by it. But you like to believe it was Hizbul Mujahideen!

We cannot let Kashmir go! As we have to bother of Ladakh and Kargil too! A lifeline passes through Kashmir valley. Since one can be sure of the Kashmiri apathy towards Ladakh and Jammu, we should never give freedom!

Besides if the Accession to India is invalid, then the plebiscite hold no grounds anyway! Since your section of Kashmir trashes the accession, the plebiscite can be trashed better!

i sure respond,but then i was talking of defaming army? which acording to facts is incorrect,read what i mentioned about highway cover

i have given refrences from orginization..and more,who accuse of gross human rights violation from army and it even includes that of militants but “ARMY TAKES THE LION SHARE) DONT CONFUSE

SIR you dont even recognise indias human rights groups,strange but you find hurriyat hand in it too…ARE U SURE THEY ARE NOT SEDITIOUS…”STAND BY YOUR WORDS”,YOU SEEM TO BE IN DELIMA OF YES AND NO….CHK OUT YOUR SELF

“YOU BELIEVE THAT ITS THE MOST inappropriate time for a plebiscite” BUT THEN YOUR COMMENTS SAY “WE CANT LOOSE KASHMIR”.WHATS THE POINT IN TALKING WHEN YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU SAYING.PLZ JUDGE “DO YOU STAND BY YOUR WORDS”…I DONT SEE SO, YOU AGREE ON A PROBLEM AND THEN BELEVE ITS NOT IN OUR INTREST….STRANGE

ITS ULTIMATELY THAT VIEWS OF PEOPLE LIKE YOURS CANT BE CHANGED “JAITLY”OF BJP WAS FAST TO REACT SEDITIOUS FOR THE OUTLOOK COLOUMINIST ROY” AND IT SEEMS YOUR SIPING HIS CUP COFEE…. COFEE…..

I agree there is a problem..Bu plebiscite is a solution which is not feasible in the current hostile enviornment!

I stand by my words!

Roy isn’t my friend that I can’t disagree with her stand, which is her usual self! People like her just want to talk when there is fire..they r nowhere to be seen when there is peace!

Roudra Sir…sorry for commenting so late….was brushing up on my facts….n thankfully i happen to be sober while replying…
but u never answered my last question….
What if the Independent Kashmir ends up as a failed state like East Timor….who collects the pieces then….n yes i know where there is a will…there is a way….even MNS has the will….so does VHP n the Bajrang Dal n SIMI….so do the naxalites….n the Bodos….n the tamils supportn LTTE…n it doesnt take them long to influence the majority to toe in to their wills…..r u sayin we give in to everyones will…
the luxury of self determination is only possible a s long as the idea of India is kept intact….
n Yes i just wish u wud have elaborated a bit more on where the finance wud have come from for a separate state rather than stating status quo…hoping to be enlightened…n u r welcome to abuse

The Finance would be world wide terrorist network!